Do scales need to be in alphabetical order?What's so special about minor and major scales?When learning scales, is it important to know which key is being pressed when?What are the official modes from Ionian to Locrian?Diatonic Scales and Modes. How do I reconcile information about Modes?So… 84 modal scales vs actual practice and usagePracticing piano scalesmemorizing scales in playing guitar?Why are scales built sequentially, rather than around the circle of fifths?How to remember and see each major scale degrees when playing a scale not in order?Are Secondary Dominants related to Chord-Scales?

Is this a hacking script in function.php?

What killed these X2 caps?

How dangerous is XSS?

Is it logically or scientifically possible to artificially send energy to the body?

Do UK voters know if their MP will be the Speaker of the House?

How do I deal with an unproductive colleague in a small company?

How do I handle a potential work/personal life conflict as the manager of one of my friends?

Is "remove commented out code" correct English?

Am I breaking OOP practice with this architecture?

Personal Teleportation: From Rags to Riches

How can saying a song's name be a copyright violation?

What is a romance in Latin?

I would say: "You are another teacher", but she is a woman and I am a man

Why was the shrinking from 8″ made only to 5.25″ and not smaller (4″ or less)?

Plagiarism or not?

Ambiguity in the definition of entropy

Why didn't Boeing produce its own regional jet?

Can compressed videos be decoded back to their uncompresed original format?

Why do bosons tend to occupy the same state?

Can we compute the area of a quadrilateral with one right angle when we only know the lengths of any three sides?

What does the expression "A Mann!" means

Is there a hemisphere-neutral way of specifying a season?

Can I run a new neutral wire to repair a broken circuit?

What method can I use to design a dungeon difficult enough that the PCs can't make it through without killing them?



Do scales need to be in alphabetical order?


What's so special about minor and major scales?When learning scales, is it important to know which key is being pressed when?What are the official modes from Ionian to Locrian?Diatonic Scales and Modes. How do I reconcile information about Modes?So… 84 modal scales vs actual practice and usagePracticing piano scalesmemorizing scales in playing guitar?Why are scales built sequentially, rather than around the circle of fifths?How to remember and see each major scale degrees when playing a scale not in order?Are Secondary Dominants related to Chord-Scales?













3















If we take out the sharps and flats, I'm wondering if all scales need to be in alphabetical order in terms of their letters: A,B,C,D,E,F,G where 'A' comes after 'G'.

also..

no repeating notes: A,A#,B,C,D,E, etc.

no skipping notes: A,C,D,E,etc.

no combining flats and sharps: A,B♭,C#,etc.

Therefore the scales are always in alphabetical order and each note is different. (?)



So the scale of C minor:

C, D, E♭, F, G, A♭, B♭

The scale of F# major:

F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, and E#



So if we don't look at the flats then the scales satisfy the above conditions. Is this true for all scales/modes in music? I'm guessing this is some kind of agreed upon convention to make things easier to memorize because it's just alphabetical order at that point. So the only thing we have to memorize is how many sharps or flats are in each scale.










share|improve this question
























  • Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

    – Michael Curtis
    38 mins ago











  • @MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

    – foreyez
    4 mins ago











  • I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

    – Tim
    53 secs ago











  • @Tim what's the issue I can edit it

    – foreyez
    27 secs ago















3















If we take out the sharps and flats, I'm wondering if all scales need to be in alphabetical order in terms of their letters: A,B,C,D,E,F,G where 'A' comes after 'G'.

also..

no repeating notes: A,A#,B,C,D,E, etc.

no skipping notes: A,C,D,E,etc.

no combining flats and sharps: A,B♭,C#,etc.

Therefore the scales are always in alphabetical order and each note is different. (?)



So the scale of C minor:

C, D, E♭, F, G, A♭, B♭

The scale of F# major:

F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, and E#



So if we don't look at the flats then the scales satisfy the above conditions. Is this true for all scales/modes in music? I'm guessing this is some kind of agreed upon convention to make things easier to memorize because it's just alphabetical order at that point. So the only thing we have to memorize is how many sharps or flats are in each scale.










share|improve this question
























  • Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

    – Michael Curtis
    38 mins ago











  • @MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

    – foreyez
    4 mins ago











  • I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

    – Tim
    53 secs ago











  • @Tim what's the issue I can edit it

    – foreyez
    27 secs ago













3












3








3








If we take out the sharps and flats, I'm wondering if all scales need to be in alphabetical order in terms of their letters: A,B,C,D,E,F,G where 'A' comes after 'G'.

also..

no repeating notes: A,A#,B,C,D,E, etc.

no skipping notes: A,C,D,E,etc.

no combining flats and sharps: A,B♭,C#,etc.

Therefore the scales are always in alphabetical order and each note is different. (?)



So the scale of C minor:

C, D, E♭, F, G, A♭, B♭

The scale of F# major:

F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, and E#



So if we don't look at the flats then the scales satisfy the above conditions. Is this true for all scales/modes in music? I'm guessing this is some kind of agreed upon convention to make things easier to memorize because it's just alphabetical order at that point. So the only thing we have to memorize is how many sharps or flats are in each scale.










share|improve this question
















If we take out the sharps and flats, I'm wondering if all scales need to be in alphabetical order in terms of their letters: A,B,C,D,E,F,G where 'A' comes after 'G'.

also..

no repeating notes: A,A#,B,C,D,E, etc.

no skipping notes: A,C,D,E,etc.

no combining flats and sharps: A,B♭,C#,etc.

Therefore the scales are always in alphabetical order and each note is different. (?)



So the scale of C minor:

C, D, E♭, F, G, A♭, B♭

The scale of F# major:

F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, and E#



So if we don't look at the flats then the scales satisfy the above conditions. Is this true for all scales/modes in music? I'm guessing this is some kind of agreed upon convention to make things easier to memorize because it's just alphabetical order at that point. So the only thing we have to memorize is how many sharps or flats are in each scale.







theory scales






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 mins ago







foreyez

















asked 2 hours ago









foreyezforeyez

5,29532586




5,29532586












  • Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

    – Michael Curtis
    38 mins ago











  • @MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

    – foreyez
    4 mins ago











  • I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

    – Tim
    53 secs ago











  • @Tim what's the issue I can edit it

    – foreyez
    27 secs ago

















  • Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

    – Michael Curtis
    38 mins ago











  • @MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

    – foreyez
    4 mins ago











  • I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

    – Tim
    53 secs ago











  • @Tim what's the issue I can edit it

    – foreyez
    27 secs ago
















Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

– Michael Curtis
38 mins ago





Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

– Michael Curtis
38 mins ago













@MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

– foreyez
4 mins ago





@MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

– foreyez
4 mins ago













I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

– Tim
53 secs ago





I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

– Tim
53 secs ago













@Tim what's the issue I can edit it

– foreyez
27 secs ago





@Tim what's the issue I can edit it

– foreyez
27 secs ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















2














This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.



So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.






share|improve this answer























  • Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

    – Basstickler
    1 hour ago


















2














Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.



For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.






share|improve this answer






























    1














    As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.



    But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.





    share























      Your Answer








      StackExchange.ready(function()
      var channelOptions =
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "240"
      ;
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
      createEditor();
      );

      else
      createEditor();

      );

      function createEditor()
      StackExchange.prepareEditor(
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: false,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: null,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader:
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      ,
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      );



      );













      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function ()
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f82327%2fdo-scales-need-to-be-in-alphabetical-order%23new-answer', 'question_page');

      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      2














      This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.



      So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.






      share|improve this answer























      • Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

        – Basstickler
        1 hour ago















      2














      This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.



      So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.






      share|improve this answer























      • Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

        – Basstickler
        1 hour ago













      2












      2








      2







      This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.



      So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.






      share|improve this answer













      This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.



      So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.







      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered 1 hour ago









      BassticklerBasstickler

      6,2691036




      6,2691036












      • Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

        – Basstickler
        1 hour ago

















      • Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

        – Basstickler
        1 hour ago
















      Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

      – Basstickler
      1 hour ago





      Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

      – Basstickler
      1 hour ago











      2














      Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.



      For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.






      share|improve this answer



























        2














        Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.



        For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.






        share|improve this answer

























          2












          2








          2







          Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.



          For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.






          share|improve this answer













          Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.



          For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 1 hour ago









          PeterPeter

          2,855521




          2,855521





















              1














              As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.



              But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.





              share



























                1














                As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.



                But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.





                share

























                  1












                  1








                  1







                  As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.



                  But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.





                  share













                  As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.



                  But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.






                  share











                  share


                  share










                  answered 3 mins ago









                  TimTim

                  104k10107262




                  104k10107262



























                      draft saved

                      draft discarded
















































                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Music: Practice & Theory Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid


                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function ()
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f82327%2fdo-scales-need-to-be-in-alphabetical-order%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      बाताम इन्हें भी देखें सन्दर्भ दिक्चालन सूची1°05′00″N 104°02′0″E / 1.08333°N 104.03333°E / 1.08333; 104.033331°05′00″N 104°02′0″E / 1.08333°N 104.03333°E / 1.08333; 104.03333

                      Why is the 'in' operator throwing an error with a string literal instead of logging false?Why can't I use switch statement on a String?Python join: why is it string.join(list) instead of list.join(string)?Multiline String Literal in C#Why does comparing strings using either '==' or 'is' sometimes produce a different result?How to initialize an array's length in javascript?How can I print literal curly-brace characters in python string and also use .format on it?Why does ++[[]][+[]]+[+[]] return the string “10”?Why is char[] preferred over String for passwords?Why does this code using random strings print “hello world”?jQuery.inArray(), how to use it right?

                      How can we generalize the fact of finite dimensional vector space to an infinte dimensional case?$k[x]$-module and cyclic module over a finite dimensional vector spaceSubspace of a finite dimensional space is finite dimensionalIf V is an infinite-dimensional vector space, and S is an infinite-dimensional subspace of V, must the dimension of V/S be finite? ExplainWhy is an infinite dimensional space so different than a finite dimensional one?base for finite dimensional vector space is not infinite dimensional vector space?Any finite-dimensional vector space is the dual space of anotherHaving Trouble Understanding Meaning Of A Finite-Dimensional Vector SpaceProve that “Every subspaces of a finite-dimensional vector space is finite-dimensional”Ring as a finite dimensional Vector space over a field KQuestion regarding basis and dimension